president feeling an escape from congress. to george bush trying it is evil. but granting this president the right to do so not evil. republicans holding the debt ceiling hostage wrong. democrats doing the same thing, not wrong. not close. you can't say republicans aren't reading the will of the people in election when the people kept them in charge of the house in the same election. election have consequences, of course. perhaps hiking taxes on the rich is up with of them. but that does not mean we don't do a lick about our debt. not getting a handle on spending wasn't one of them. hearing only one side don't make you a journalist but doing so to ignore the other side makes you charyl top. charlatan. go after the goose, go after the gander. what is a gander? do you know?

be fair, balanceed. both sides. have at it. >> dana: hello, i'm dana perino with kimberly guilfoyle, bob beckel, eric bolling, andrea tantaros. it's 5:00 in new york city. this is "the five." ♪ ♪ >> dana: earlier today, president obama held the final press conference of his first term in the east room of the white house. the main attraction, our old friend the debt ceiling. they could default on the debt, unless the debt ceiling is raised. republicans want the president to cut spending before they i gree on a deal. but the president at no time seem eager for compromise. listen. >> we have to stop lurking from crisis to crisis to crisis. when there is a clear pass that requires discipline,

responsibility and compromise. >> dana: yet, he showed little willingness to do so. >> i'm willing to compromise and find common ground over how to reduce the deficit, america cannot afford another debate with this congress about whether or not they should pay the bills they have racked up. what i will not do is to have that negotiation with gun at the head of the people. >> dana: interesting choice of words to describe that. eric, you talked about not wanting the country to lurch from crisis to crisis. most americans would agree and want washington to fix fundamental problems. why do we have to have the debate every three months? >> eric: sure. start with the debt ceiling and how it came about. prior to world war i, everybody was paid. the debt we incurred was paid for through various bonds. world war i to world war ii, fdr got together with the treasury secretary and set let's put a debt ceiling op

and they started to borrow money. that amount in 1949 was $45 billion. today, $16.4 trillion. that is 46,400% higher. between 1939 and 1980, we never exceeded $1 trillion in debt. now we push $17 trillion. the problem with the sound bite is president obama was the guy in 2006 that said i will not vote for you. he wouldn't vote for a debt ceiling increase. leadership means the buck stops here. that's why i won't vote for raising the debt creteing. that is senator, senator obama in 2006. he voted against raising the debt ceiling. calls it unpatriot i cannot to do it now. >> dana: president obama was called out on this before. saying it was unpatriotic and lack of leadership. that's why you would vote against it. now it's unpatriotic if the

patriot act hold you to spending reduction to get the debt level raised. major garrett at cbs now, asked a question. it was a long question or we'd play it for you. but i thought president obama could have answered it with more honesty, as opposed to yeah, i know. politics got in the way. >> kimberly: but he didn't. he wanted to say i know what you are talking about. >> dana: attack the questio questioner. that was then, this is now. >> kimberly: now he's head of the ma nar i can and he can do -- monarchy and he can do what he wants. he continues to demonize with the rhetoric and language those who disagree with him. because they have a concern about the financial well-being of the future of the country. how about cut spending.

>> dana: i want to get to you in a second. i had a sense that what the president was trying to get across was not dealing with the republicans -- >> andrea: he said something different election night. >> eric: but even since then. >> dana: fiscal cliff, he said i'm tired of working with one another. i thought today he could have announced a way forward, a clearer path to get it done. what he was trying to do is shore up the democrat who don't have spending cut and no entitlement reform and trying to signal don't worry, i'm not going to do that. >> andrea: he signaled loud and clear that he won't do that. the strategy seems attack, attack, attack. he said a number of other conflicting things. this is so disingenuous to bash republicans for fiscal

responsibility after increased spending, he doubled it. when has he com compromised himself? after giffords all he did is lecture and lecture, tone, how he should be responsible. holding people hostage and ransom. this is a president who hasn't proposed a budget in over 1300 days. for him to point fingers and lecture them on their bill -- >> dana: that is an interesting point. you can talk about anything you want but answer this, too. democrats run the senate and they haven't passed a budget. president obama is not going to propose one on time. he will wait until after the state of the union. miss the deadline. first, when harry reid says i am not going to the gyrations of the past, i'm going to, going to pass through the senate what we think we can get through the house.

>> bob: if this is a monarchy he can do it by himself. but the point is -- >> not his first two years, though. >> bob: what is interesting he made a comment, exactly right. leaving aside the politic comment in 2007 running for president -- >> eric: whoa, whoa, whoa. he voted against raising debt ceiling. >> bob: did you interrupt me? >> sorry. >> he voted against raising the debt ceiling, you are right. but the point is that this money is money that congress passed and appropriated. the congress has to vote on the money. they vote on it. pay your bill. >> if you can't vote on a budget, how can you do that?

>> bob: every dime was passed by the congress. >> andrea: first, democratically controlled. >> bob: for two years. >> andrea: he can't say i have no responsibility here. >> it's not realistic. >> the issue, he stood in front of the american people and said i'll do this. elected congress hands and let president obama, czar, king obama decide what to do for the whole country. by the way, for the kids, too. today is a snapshot in time and say we need to pay the bills. yes. but we don't need to run it up in the next 10 the 15 years. >> bob: it's much more dangerous to leave fair trade of the credit of the united states government in gutter if we don't raise the debt ceiling. he can, under a lot of legal

con industry tutionm lawyers who believe that there is a way for him to do this without -- >> dana: imagine if president bush tried that? >> bob: stop comparing what would happen -- >> dana: why? why? >> bob: in this case he can do it and he should. for the republicans to pay chicken with something important as fair, faith and credit is dangerous -- >> andrea: so why won't democrats talk about spending? they won a huge battle. now they say talk spending cuts. they don't want to. >> bob: they will talk spending cuts and they have to deal with entitlement. >> kimberly: do you agree at the least they're reluctant to do so? >> bob: at the very least? >> kimberly: they don't want to hear the word. at all. >> bob: they are scared about doing it but they have to do it believe me it has to happen. >> kimberly: would you agree there is absence of leadership in that regard? >> bob: >> dana: eric, final point? >> eric: i know it's important we talk about it, i guess. the 14th amendment to the constitution says the credit,

the debt shall not be, i component know, taken lightly. president obama is trying to subvert congress, go around what he -- he said twice today. on guns and spending that he wanted to use executive ordinary and subvert the constitution. this is an arrogance i have never seen before. >> bob: the president is responsible for full, faith and credit of the united states government. he can and should do it single handedly. >> dana: be care waffle you wish if. they won't always be in power. and up next, saying that they look down at minorities and what is the basis of the accusation? you will hear from him when we come back. ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> andrea: welcome back to

"the five." colin powell, that george bush chose to be secretary of state and served under president bush 41 and as ronald reagan me a incendiary comments about the republican party on one of the sunday shows yesterday. >> there is also a dark, a dark intolerance by some in the party. what do i mean by that? i mean they still sort of look down on minorities. how can i evidence that? i see the former governor saying that the president is shucking and jiving that is a racial slave term. >> andrea: today on my radio show, senator rubio had this to say in response --" i disagree with general powell's assessment of the republican party. they placed two hispanics in the u.s. senate and we now have an african-american senator." so, bob, baseless criticism from powell? >> bob: not at all. the way you introduce this thing you said he said the

republican party. that's not what he said. he said a small bane in the republican party that looks down on minorities. i believe that's true. i believe when you had kreito in the house he looked down to hispanics. whoever made the shuck and jive, that was that's racial comment. i don't believe that the republican party is all racist but there is a vain. you say there is a vain -- >> kimberly: you named one perp. >> bob: i named two. >> eric: for the record he didn't say small vain, he said dark vain. >> andrea: is that racial, too? >> bob: the way you introduced it was the republican party and rubio said the republican party. he did not say that. >> andrea: this sounds like ganging up on president obama for not having enough women or minorities so let's project,

deflect. it's not true. republican party has one of the deepest, most diverse benchs they ever had. >> kimberly: absolutely. it's without any basis. i'm surprised and disappointed that the general would make this allegation, that i take to be serious as a minority woman. why does he step out in front to make a statement like that? now he's the talking piece for them? >> what is strange, he started to talk about the era he was in the bush administration. he named republicans that were moderate. he cited them. they were all white men. i thought wow! do you want to go back to those eras? we have come a long way. >> dana: he was a wonderful general and wonderful cabinet member for president bush, who

never has had anything but wonderful things to say about him. the sunday shows should realize there is a new prop of g.o.p. leadership. you had one of the radio show. that takes time. we talked about how there is not as many women in politicssthat should be. certainly more on the democratic side in elected office. i don't know if that is true when it comes to staffers on capitol hill or other places in the white house. they are saying what do you think? help lead us. rubio is leader of that. >> eric: the republican party realized they needed to embrace the hispanics and embrace blacks. they have done that. my question is why is powell after all that bush -- that the republican party did for his career.

asked him to run for president. >> dana: a lot of people wanted him to run. >> eric: why is he doing this? it doesn't make sense to me other than citing a former republican governor as basis for him to say that there is a dark vein in the republican party. >> bob: i don't think it's a great conspiracy here. if you listen to the debate on the immigration. it's not the democrats, it's the republicans that use the words "illegal aliens." that is one of the most pejorative terms i heard. >> andrea: that's completely unfair. >> bob: why? >> andrea: look at the immigration debate of 2006. who stood up and led on that? john mccain, republicans. where were the democratically controlled union? against immigration reform. >> eric: are we talking immigration or colin powell -- >> bob: you are asking me for examples and every time i hear "illegal alien" that fits in.

>> bob: that is -- >> dana: maybe that's what he was talking about but i don't know what he was saying. just when you get irritated if someone says michael moore is spokesperson for democratic party. tom creito doesn't spieg for all republicans. he got atension because he said outrageous things like michael moore does. to use that example for someone not in office for four years and said he would run for governor and didn't work, the table. >> bob: can you take the republican party and the house that voted against immigration reform? >> dana: excuse me. who are the people that ruin comprehensive reform in 2008? the senate democrats -- >> eric: harry reid -- >> dana: so why are you blaming the house republicans? >> bob: they voted against it. >> andrea: i have respect

for colin powell, but he also said this. asked about hillary clinton and benghazi he said he didn't believe it's a blot on her record. how can he say this when there is four dead americans. she said i take responsibilit responsibility. kim i don't know why he went on a limb. i have respect for his service and served well and rewarded with tremendous opportunities in the bush administration. this makes no sense. >> bob: he was secretary of state and understands things like this happen. this is not the secretary of state's final responsibility. >> don't take credit for? >> bob: that night was not her responsibility. >> she said it was her responsibility. >> bob: she said i'm responsible for it but is he is responsible to make decision about security? >> andrea: so it's not hillary clinton's or susan

rice's or president obama. nobody's? >> kimberly: the ambassador. >> bob: i said she said it was her responsibility. >> dana: the point is -- >> bob: it might have been the responsibility of somebody in the embassy not telling the ambassador go to benghazi. it's unsafe. >> andrea: so now we blame foreign service agent agents ine embassy. >> bob: you blame everybody else. >> andrea: i have a hard time. buying what you -- >> bob: it was all her fault. >> andrea: i'm not picking up what you are putting down. she is the secretary of state. in charge of the diplomatic affairs. >> bob: how many embassies -- >> andrea: they ignored the warnings. >> bob: how many embassies -- >> andrea: a lot. that was in grave danger. coming up, the king of tabloid tv jerry springer says the show is a true picture of reality and more democratic than politics today. so does he have a point? or a perfect example of american culture in decline?

that's ahead. on "the five." ♪ ♪ uhh, it's next month, actually... eddie continues singing: to tickets to... paradiiiiiise! no four. remember? whoooa whooaa whooo! you know ronny, folks who save hundreds of dollars by switching to geico sure are happy. and how happy are they jimmy? happier than eddie money running a travel agency. get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more.

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♪ ♪ >> eric: welcome back. does it seem every time you turn on the tv or pick up newspaper there are more and more examples of american culture in decline? ever wonder how it all started? jerry springer thinks he knows where ground zero was. >> i am the father of the destruction of we were civilization. look, my show is stupid. because it has no redeeming social value. an hour of escapism. >> eric: who owns the title, springer, maury, morton downey junior or richard bay, but jerry may have a good reason to believe he's partly responsible. watch.

[ cheering ] >> eric: so jerry springer a big liberal democrat says he is the father of decline in america. is that all part of the plan? >> bob: that reminds me of the last day i lived with my wife? i take that back. you are a wonderful mother. still are. she let me have it a few times. this has been around a long time, springer. has this been around a long time? yes. it's more prev leapt because there are cable channels but who watches it? a lot of people apparently. >> kimberly: we have all seen it. c'mon. >> bob: i haven't seen it. >> kimberly: you're living it. >> eric: living it, is that

reality? >> andrea: he argued this is reality. that's where i laugh because he talked about he is the father of the decline of western civilization. and goes on to take the moral high ground and saying at least my show is reality. that is not real at all. you know they pay them to come to studio and take on a role and beat each other. they probably give them extra money. >> kimberly: great snacks in the green room. >> bob: like wide world of wrestling, that is set up. >> kimberly: i like the attention. it saw you on jerry, you gave them a beat-down. the whole deal. think think it's funny and ads excitement to their day. >> eric: look at dana. >> kimberly: she has the face on. >> eric: horrified. where am i going with this. >> dana: escapism for an hour. or really trying to figure out a way to degrade other people or humiliate them for your financial well-being?

how does a show like this get created? i know we should have people throw chairs and punchs at each other and pull girls' hair, this would be a great show. all the people that work on the show executives made money off of people making fools of themselves. this is their 15 minutes of fame. i sound like a downer but i don't like it. >> bob: people watch it say i'm not as bad as those people are. >> eric: exactly. >> andrea: taking a paternity test on national television is not real. >> bob: thank god for that. >> eric: aren't you the up with that showed us the paternity test on the street in the summer? >> andrea: what? >> dana: look at her face. >> eric: in the van. >> andrea: like the food truck. you have a picture? >> andrea: the who's your daddy truck? >> eric: check out the web site, sugar daddies are

matched with sugar babies. they have a list of top colleges where the co-ed tuitions are financed by kel thy dudes looking for love. or something. bob, you must have an opinion on this. >> kimberly: bob, are you edge kateing anyone? >> bob: no. i think this has been going on for a long time. it's the question of the web. web made it access way to do it. guys have been sponsoring women in college going back 40, 50 years. >> dana: really? i never heard of this. >> andrea: you never heard of the bob beckel scholarship program. >> bob: it's very selective. >> kimberly: i've heard it all. >> eric: is this legal? >> kimberly: don't worry, you're covered. >> dana: can you write it off your taxes? >> kimberly: if you claim them as a depep dent. dent -- dependent. >> eric: i looked a at this

and checked it out. >> kimberly: for research. >> eric: guy gives money toward the tuition. what does the girl do? >> dana: that was the seriously missing from the article. >> bob: what does the girl do? >> eric: i know what the girl does on the street but what does she do on the website? >> bob: keep it classy. probably sweeps the rooms out and does the dishes. >> eric: leave it there. directly ahead, glamour, glitz, controversy in tinsel township. yotown. stars gathered for the golden globes. we have our best moments. >> dana: next on "the five." ♪ ♪ this is $100,000.

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i'm bret baier in washington. the big story, president obama's last news conference of his first term. he accused the g.o.p. of holding a gun to the head of the american people. and insisting the u.s. cannot become a deadbeat nation. we'll have a report, check on some of the president's math and analysis from brit hume. the president talked about assault weapons been a, limit on high capacity ammunition magazines. stronger background check on perspective gun buyers and said he thinks there are things to do using executive order instead of legislation to make changes. chicago has some of the toughest gun laws and the worst gun violence. we go there live tonight. america looking at another outpost on war on terror, how we may be get involved in african nation of mali. that starts at 6:00 eastern. now we send it back to new york and my colleagues with "the five."

>> i really haven't been followen the controversy over "zero dark thirty" but when it comes to torture i trust a man who spent three years married to james cameron. >> kimberly: all right. well that was co-host amy having fun at james cameron's expense last night. "argo" and "girls" and "homeland" were the big winner bus the three-hour live broadcast was full of the hollywood headlines. we picked our moments. what did you think of the show? >> andrea: this was my least favorite moment. when president clinton came out and surprised thed elite. you see them rising to their feet. then clinton proceeded to introduce the movie "lincoln." listen. >> president lincoln struggled to apolish slavery and reminds us that even during progress

is caldron of principle and compromise. it gives us hope that we can do it again. >> andrea: history lesson. it was the southern democrats, bill clinton, born at the time of lincoln in the state of arkansas probably would have opposed what lincoln was trying to do. so, again -- >> dana: or he would have been a republican. >> andrea: the left trying to co-op what the right has done with president. >> kimberly: disgusting. >> dana: there is politics in hollywood and politics in d.c. i prefer them not mixed up on the play. this is the segment that i loved when costner won for "hatfield and mccoys." it was classy and from the heart. >> first time i came in this room i was unknown actor and

red carpet, i walked op it and the bulbs were going and flashing and the photographers yelling at the actors. to look at them, nobody said anything to me. it's a great night to celebrate but more importantly get a chance illuminate movies people might not have ever seen now and now they will. >> dana: i agree. great thing about the goldp globes. you add to the list of movies you want to see. >> kimberly: i think so. i have a few written down. >> eric: my favorite moment is when ben affleck won the award for "argo." watch what he did and we'll tell you about it afterwards. watch. >> this is about tony mendez, american hero, represents the clandestine and foreign service to make sacrifices on behalf of the troops every day. i want to thank them very much. >> eric: first, he thanked the military. bill clinton walks out and gets a standing ovation. place goes crazy. ben affleck thanks the military, pull the shot up

now. check out who was not clapping. there is richard gere not clapping. >> kimberly: my gosh. >> eric: mel gibson, not clapping. robert downey junior not clapping. harvey weinstein not clapping and denzel washington. they don't even clap. >> dana: could it be they weren't listening? >> bob: he sounds like -- >> andrea: the minute the camera went on them, the camera panned the room after he said that. as soon as the stars, always the actor knew they were on camera, they were like -- >> eric: yeah, yeah. military, great, great. >> kimberly: that was freaky you just went all madp team and used a telestrator and circled everyone's head. awesome. you probably had to rewind and pause it a lot. >> eric: went back and forth on 20 times. >> kimberly: i know you. that's what i'm saying. i know you did it for sure. bob? >> bob: i am still upset "silence of the lambs" didn't get nomination. my favorite moment is jodie

foster and came out and sort of explained she was gay, but we knew that. she went on and op and on about it. she made a good point which is that the stars seem to have big press conference to announce they're gay. yeah. we have a s.o.t.? >> holds that every celebrity is expected to honor the details of their private less with a press conference, frag raps and a primetime reality show. if you had been a public figure by the time you were a toddler and fight for a life that felt real and honest and normal against all odds, maybe then you, too, might value privacy above all else. >> andrea: by the way, she is still speaking. >> dana: i liked it. >> bob: i went and looked at it. i didn't watch the show. what can be more boring -- >> kimberly: bob goes this is my favorite moment. i didn't watch it. >> bob: i listen to her. went back and -- >> kimberly: confirmed that in the goalkeepe green room. >> andrea: i liked at the

end when they talked about her mom. >> kimberly: that is when she cried. >> dana: especially the peopler ricpeople that eric cird before? >> eric: they were balling. >> kimberly: let's get to the most important part of the show. what was everyone wearing? was it amazing or did it look disgusting? all right. so let's start with something positive. who looks gorgeous? we have a couple of pieces here. jennifer garner who also completed her husband piece because he left out the bff george clooney, a problem. my husband left him out. another producer. gorgeous in the red. everybody said the big take-away from the show was that ben and jen wowed the red carpet. there is life after j.lo. naimi watts always looking divine. darker red dress. she looks fabulous.

she has had two kids. god bless her. nice husband. jennifer lawrence. this is a really pretty dress. dill ver belt. she looks really -- >> dana: wow! i don't like that. why is that necessary? the detail on the area? >> kimberly: what do you mean? >> eric: th -- >> dana: the icicle thing. >> kimberly: jessica is a big winer for "zero dark thirty." i don't like it. >> dana: i like it. she looks great. i like her. she was on the plane and watching an interview -- i like her. i want her to be my friend. >> bob: i want to comment on every one and eric says shut up. >> eric: as your friend. don't comment on the dresses. >> kimberly: let's talk about halle berry who always looks phenomenal but i wasn't in love with this versace

print. from last year. >> dana: last year? horrendous. >> andrea: she has the slit up the leg. overplayed. angelina jolie did it. who looked good is lena dunham. we have a picture of her. the up with that did the obama commercial. she called republicans nazis the other day. >> dana: this is like when we do sports for me. >> eric: before we go, i want to point out "homeland" won four goldp globes. >> kimberly: big fan. >> eric: huge fan. i saw "zero dark thirty." if you haven't seen it, you have to see it. >> kimberly: beat out everything for best picture -- >> bob: i saw "seabiscuit." go see that. >> kimberly: you are so behind. quick update op a story we're following. lance armstrong reportedly apologized to employees at the livestrong foundation earlier

today and the full confession is expected when he sits down with opera and that is happening this afternoon. we have more on that later this week. coming up, big news from across the pond. william and kate -- i love this -- made a huge announcement. you have to stick around to hear this. ♪ ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> bob: you may have heard about a 6-year-old boy suspended from school in maryland for pointing his finger and saying, "pow!" draconian punishment for kid being a kid. the labor secretary and s the mother of three boys and she thinks the kind of reactions aren't helping kids. >> part of the problem is demonizing school. little boys the normal behavior is outside the realm

of what a lot of schools want to see. you are teaching the wrong lesson. you are teaching that simple child's play is somehow aggressive. there is a problem we think we can socialize chirp to being different beings than they are -- socialize chirp to being different beings than they are. >> bob: this is days after new township but still, number, she has a good point. >> eric: 100%. we are demonizing america. there is no winner or loser the culture slide can start the school level and continues throughout. >> dana: last week i talked about my friend who her kid goes to an elementary school in washington, d.c. they got the letter over thanksgiving saying they weren't going to do thanksgiving anymore because it was hurt to feel native miles per hours and so one

thing they were going to do is halting any cowboys and independent yaps play on the playground. nobody was allowed to do that anymore. if i believe it was a little girl who had made that gesture and said, "pow" she would not been suspended. they have a zero tolerance policy but i don't know if it's equal. >> bob: did anybody go "pow" to you? >> andrea: you do it all the time. a record in 1990 said women were short changed, particularly young girls in school so there was an overcompensation with girls. now you see them graduate from college, getting higher test scores and little boys are diagnosed with the learning disorders, like a.d.d., more than girls so the boys are getting left behind. in society, it's catered to women. women are the ones who are buying products. the movies from charleston heston to seth rogin. the culture is fem newsed in

my opinion. >> kimberly: i agree. i see it in school and ronin classes. let boys be boys. they are trying to medicate them and turn them in to girls. they're boys. celebrate the difference in genders. >> eric: i don't know if you watched the golden globe but if you watch the red carpet leading up to it, i don't think there is a man left in hollywood. every one of them is femininized. >> andrea: it's true. jonah hill? bruce willis to jonah hill? >> dana: you know what you need to watch. american -- [ overtalk ] >> bob: one more thing is up next.

>> dana: time for one more thing on monday. andrea? >> andrea: the miss america pageant was this saturday, this past saturday night. one of the contestants was caught giving an accurate that wasn't about -- giving an answer that wasn't accurate. listen to miss california answer a question about

euthanasia. >> what is your feeling op euthanasia becoming legalized? >> that is one thing i'm not educated onism i'll have to look up on exactly what that means. but i do know it's a vaccine, correct? >> no. euthanasia is assisted suicide. >> i felt so dumb. >> eric: missed by that much. >> andrea: she did not win. miss new york won. mallary hagen who gave an answer about gun control that would please you. against guns in schools. >> dana: they had unique things for pageant. there were some firsts, the first autistic perp in the pageant. >> andrea: nothing tops the answer the girl gave in iraq and the masks. remember her? >> eric: such as? >> dana: i don't remember that one. probably a good one. >> eric: i saw "zero dark

thirty." small sound bite. roll it. >> never find it. >> one of -- [ inaudible ] >> eric: so, very quickly, after about the third time i told my son, that's gitmo, detainee, the september a stealth. he is like shut up. >> kimberly: stop talking. >> eric: fantastic movie. news junkie and following this stuff. >> dana: you get from your dad what they say to bob. shut up, bob. >> bob: all the time. start with you. >> kimberly: goodness gracious. do a royal update. i know you're dying for one. we have nice baby news. they are officially confirming the palace that the duchess of cambridge is expecting a baby. they have not said if it's a by or girl in july. she is not expecting twins, like credible sources like the